Students on a Floating Rock 001: What Really is Changemaking Anyway?

We’re thrilled to announce the first episode of the new student-run podcast brought to you by CHASI, UFV’s changemaking hub. Students on a Floating Rock is a podcast dedicated to engaging with changemakers to learn about the skills and mindsets needed to navigate these uncertain times on this floating rock, also known as Earth.

So what really is changemaking anyway? For our first episode, Students on a Floating Rock is thrilled to have the amazing Dr. Martha Dow, an associate professor of sociology at the University of the Fraser Valley; director of the Community Health and Social Innovation hub; and Senior Advisor Changemaking. She’s joining us to talk about what role changemaking has at UFV, and what that could mean for students.

Students on a Floating Rock is available to stream on your favourite podcast services — including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music/Audible, and more.

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TRANSCRIPT:

Students on a Floating Rock voice-over 0:00

From UFV’s changemaking hub, this is Students on a Floating Rock, a student-run podcast dedicated to—

Students on a Floating Rock voice-over 0:07

—um, I actually think I can take it from here.

Students on a Floating Rock voice-over 0:09

Umm, okay.

Students on a Floating Rock voice-over 0:11

So if I had to describe it, then it’s basically engaging with changemakers to learn about the skills and mindsets needed to navigate these horrific times on this floating rock, also known as Earth.

Regan Smith 0:24

So what really is changemaking anyways? At UFV, we think of it as an action oriented approach to education that encourages people to think of creative solutions to complex societal issues. I know, it’s a lot. It’s simply about taking informed, intentional action to create positive cultural, social, environmental or economic change. Over the past couple of years, we’ve been going through the process of becoming an Ashoka designated Changemaker Campus.

Regan Smith 0:52

This designation opens up a network of global Changemaker Campuses and Ashoka fellows, aka really cool people, and we’re excited to see what UFV can do with all of this. For our very first episode, we have the amazing Dr. Martha Dow, Associate Professor of Sociology, Director of CHASI, and Senior Advisor Changemaking. She’s joining us today to talk about what role change making has at UFV and what that can mean for students.

Regan Smith 1:19

So it’s a pleasure, today we got Martha with us. Could you give us a little bit of an introduction of yourself?

Martha Dow 1:25

Yeah, absolutely. So I’ve been here at UFV proudly for 32 years. I’m a sociologist by trade. I also have the incredible privilege to be the director at the Community Health and Social Innovation Hub, and privileged to be working on the changemaking initiative here at UFV.

Regan Smith 1:45

Okay, so we start off with an icebreaker always. So yours is, what would you title your biography?

Martha Dow 1:51

I would title it: “I’ll Meet You at the Pub”. And I totally get, I know that I get a little bit of grief because I am constantly talking about university and campus development and mentioning the word pub on occasion, but for me, it’s been really interesting thinking about my journey in education, in post secondary, and where those conversations happened, and a whole lot of that work happened at the pub. At undergrad, at graduate level.

Martha Dow 2:26

And, you know, I’ve told some of you this story of, you know, even going to a class in fourth year, and we were a little bit late. There were three of us, and it was class of 10, and the profs like, what’s going on? You know, you’re late. And we’re like, well, honestly, we were in the pub, and we were talking about the chapter for today, and he said, okay, everybody, pack your books up. We’re heading back to the pub, right?

Martha Dow 2:48

And so I think there was a sense of community, I think, and openness in terms of collaboration that just relaxed some of the competitiveness that I think is an experience for many people. So I get you just wanted the title, but I’d say that space, that communal space that people know is there, is really, really important. And obviously we say that at a university that does not have a pub, not yet. There we go. Yeah.

Regan Smith 3:18

We’ll get one. Before you leave, right?

Martha Dow 3:20

Well, as I said, 32 years, so I don’t think I have another 32 in me.

Students on a Floating Rock voice-over 3:28

It has to happen soon.

Martha Dow 3:30

Yes, I hope so.

Regan Smith 3:31

Yeah, it’s a process. Um, yeah, I definitely think also at the pub, it also lowers a lot of nerves, or, like in classrooms, it can be anxiety provoking, also asking questions, answering stuff. So at a pub, it would be a lot more neutral, I guess?

Martha Dow 3:47

Yeah, and I think it gives an opportunity. I think if profs do it well, we don’t always do it well, but to just step back so you’re there, you’re present, but you don’t have to be the authority, right? You can let that conversation. And then I think students feel this real ease to let you back into it and in and out of it, in a way that obviously our classrooms are shaped very differently. So yeah, I think a lot of really good stuff can happen there.

Regan Smith 4:12

Okay, yeah, I always answer this too. Mine is not going to be as great as yours. I figured it out this morning, but basically mine would be called: “This Is Me” from a song. Have you ever watched Camp Rock?

Martha Dow 4:26

I have not

Regan Smith 4:26

2008 it was released. Disney Channel. It’s a banger.

Martha Dow 4:31

Okay, I’ll look for it.

Regan Smith 4:34

But yeah, that’s the ending. I think it’s, that’s finale song. Really great. I think my whole personality is off of that.

Martha Dow 4:44

I think that’s an interesting title, because it breeds authenticity, right? Like it, you know, it might have that roots that are making you sort of reflect back and laugh a bit, but I think it also just screams a desire to be oneself. So I think that’s cool.

Regan Smith 4:59

Absolutely. Thank you. Okay, so I’ll hop into the questions. So UFV has been through a whole changemaking designation process. What were your initial thoughts around UFV going through this designation compared to your thoughts now about it?

Martha Dow 5:14

Yeah, so initially I was asked—there was a course that a cohort went through, and so I was approached about that, and I took a look at the material, and in all honesty, I took a look, and I think I was feeling a little bit, is this another buzzword, you know? Is this just another, you know, sort of thing we got a tick box, particularly in a time where I think we have to be so intentional about focusing everything we do around the student experience.

Martha Dow 5:46

And so I kind of said, I said, no, thank you, respectfully. And then when I had a chance to kind of learn some more about after the cohort and and be approached to see about a role I might want to play. I kind of really thought about CHASI a lot. It’s something that Dr Mandigo had identified a lot of what goes on in CHASI as something that he saw as instrumental to changemaking efforts. So that’s why we are now called the change, you know, being viewed as the changemaking hub.

Martha Dow 6:22

And so when I thought about that, because I would argue CHASI is about two things, as you know, it’s about community driven, like we’re responsive to community and everything with students at the center, and you’re never going to get everything perfect. But I think those two principles drive everything we’ve done for the five years we’ve been open, and certainly for the two years of planning. So for me, that helped around the changemaking initiative is to really think about what we’ve done at CHASI and how that connected to the vision here at the university, and indeed, how we could find ourselves in it, and ultimately, how students could find themselves, which is, again, the most critical piece so and now I’m incredibly excited.

Martha Dow 7:06

There’s still going to be resistance. There’s going to be people that say, oh, it’s, you know, it’s that word, it’s that tick box, you know, it’s one of a bunch of things. And I think that’s what’s so exciting for me, is our new president doesn’t talk about it as one of a bunch of initiatives. Right? It’s at the core. It’s our identity. And as I told you, I mean, I’ve been here 32 years, and I think one of the things that I really see tremendous potential for us is to really wrap ourselves around an identity. And I mean, house of transformation house of change. I mean transformation, it’s hard to argue that it’s not what we should be doing. So yeah, so I’m quite excited.

Regan Smith 7:47

Yeah. I definitely remember in the beginning. I think it was after they came and did a scan, an ecoscan analysis. I think it was Rebecca Charmaine, a few other people came, and they kind of, we did our normal CHASI thing, of like going around, kind of sharing everything, like each student. And I think I remember after that you felt correct me, if I’m wrong, but you felt a lot more, I guess, on board and like, this is actually something that could be really great for UFV, yeah.

Martha Dow 8:22

I mean, anybody that’s had an opportunity to be in the room with those individuals you named, they’re pretty inspiring folks, right? Like, really so hard not to just and again, feeling how authentically they talk about it and how they engage with it, and then, to be honest, hearing the students around the table, in my view, really trying to articulate a desperate interest in change, in being part of change. And, you know, I mean changemaker, innovation, all those words, but being part of change.

Martha Dow 8:54

And I mean, right now, if we’re not part of it, I mean, I’m not sure what we’re doing, because there is, you know, these are, these are pretty desperate, urgent times. And also with that urgency comes, I hope, tremendous opportunity. The glass has to be half full, otherwise we’re in trouble. So yeah, that absolutely having them come into CHASI, and again, for us identify, like they got CHASI right away. They knew what we were about. And that was that was really important.

Regan Smith 9:29

Yeah, and also, just to speak on the part where you said, UFV finding an identity like I know before, sometimes I’ve noticed that UFV tries to compare itself to like UBC, SFU, like those big schools that’s been around for a long time, and sometimes we just don’t have that kind of power, but trying to create this identity of something that is like possible and really great and fits us for this like small university that still has the power to create this humongous change.

Martha Dow 10:05

Yeah, I mean, I think you hit, you know, we have generally all been to traditional research universities, right? So that’s the experience we’ve had. And so UFV is really quite interesting. And for a long time we simply, you know, we talked about small class sizes. And small class sizes is not an identity, right? It’s the way we do our business. And, you know, I’ve been incredibly inspired by professors, you know, in my undergrad, and the room had 400 people in it, and I’ve been in seminars with 10 where I wanted to, you know, poke myself with a fork, right? Like, you know, that kind of thing.

Martha Dow 10:41

So, yeah, I think I’ve always, you know, really thought about us as this potentially exceptional regional university that’s incredibly attentive to its community, that can be internationally known for the work that we do in our classrooms, with, you know, with our students outside of our classrooms, with our, you know, research really paying attention to the power of applied research, which I really don’t know that we fully sort of celebrated enough as well. So, yeah, I think this is a tremendous moment, and particularly in a time where universities are in a fight for our life, globally, and certainly some are in the fight a little bit more already than we are, but yeah, it’s here.

Regan Smith 11:29

Yeah, so, given all that you’ve talked about, so with changemaking coming in, why do you think, or I guess, it’s already here. Why do you think students should be excited for this changemaking process?

Martha Dow 11:41

Yeah, so we’re fortunate enough to, as you know, had the designation announced, and so, yeah, it’s incredibly exciting to be part of the network, and I think I’m most excited for students and what that means. So there’s a set number of campuses around the globe, relatively small number that go through this process and are and take it on and are successful in it, but there’s a massive network globally and that network is what I’m, you know, really excited about, from a student point of view. So you know, you and Skylar have been instrumental in initiating a student club here. So there’s other clubs, sort of on other campuses, but there’s like Ashoka fellows, people have that a whole lot of experience in changemaking and innovation, coming together and having conversations about how to do more of that, how to engage student to students to a greater degree. So I think that is is going to open up some doors that we we can only imagine as sort of we’re just starting that process, but I think really bode well for how students can start to think about their role in system change.

Regan Smith 12:53

I’ve looked at, I’ve had a chance to look at the Ashoka fellows and just some people that are on that list, and it’s really inspirational too, just seeing what they have been able to do, and then just seeing myself, I’m like, oh, I could actually do something like that, just by seeing all these other people doing it well.

Martha Dow 13:11

And you just, like, hit on like, we all look for that. We all look for models, whether it’s through our identities, where we’re going through and trying to see ourselves in the world in some way. And I think on this front, it’s students really trying to see the ways they can be change—it’s easy for us to say, everybody’s a change maker, right? But I think that can feel really empty if you don’t feel you’ve got the resources, the supports, you’re navigating all sorts of other things in your life. And so I think the more they can see fellows, they can see students who—individuals who have been students and then have stayed involved in Ashoka, I think that’s really, really important. And I think being involved in work where they actually get to see the change happen, right? So, yeah.

Regan Smith 13:57

I guess with all this talk about student centered and everything, and what is happening, I guess, for students, is there anything that you can maybe tease about any future plans that you have for changemaking?

Martha Dow 14:09

Yeah, I love the way you say that, as if I have any power. I feel like, you know, I should be tapping my fingers together and sounding very evil or something. But yeah, I mean to me, what excites me most is that we play a role of amplifying some pretty amazing things that are happening on our campus. And hopefully, I think what’s really essential that we’ve done, sort of in the time coming up to the designation, and now as we move forward, is to really help people find themselves in it, feel empowered to engage in their work in such a way that provides different avenues for resourcing, different avenues for support, but really allows them to see themselves, you know, in the umbrella that is UFV.

Martha Dow 14:54

And again, this goes back to why it’s so essential that it’s not one of like, it’s not a new initiative. It’s why we’re here. It’s fundamental to our mission, our vision, our values. As I think about the role that hopefully I can play, is just sort of supporting people to to find themselves in the work, to think about collaborations that they might not have thought about before, to think in interdisciplinary ways and facilitate that work, potentially. We have all sorts of, you know, great work happening on this campus, and room to have an awful lot more. And the challenge for us, you know, you talked a few minutes ago about, you know, larger research universities, so we do need to navigate through our teaching load, and what that looks like in terms of people having programs of research.

Martha Dow 15:40

And what’s exciting about that is that’s about system change. That’s about us rethinking, maybe you know, so many things about how we organize ourselves as universities. So I think there’s great potential with respect to that. I’m most excited about students finding themselves in this. We have a new certificate, and you’re, you know, obviously talking to Anna more about that, but, I mean, that’s another way that students can see how they can start to learn more about how to be part of this and credential it, which is part of why we’re here, and also find partnerships and collaboration, and find faculty they’re interested in engaging.

Regan Smith 16:26

Yeah, I definitely know, as you’re talking about, like, this sort of collaboration aspect, we’re starting, we’re creating a changemaking week right now. And me and Skylar have had the opportunity to meet with people from different departments, like we met with Student Experience Office, Sustainability, and just today, Student Wellness, and it was just me and Skylar. So we’re just students meeting with these people who are at this, like department job probably have, like, a full salary, and like, yearly and like, just having these conversations that I never thought I would be able to have with such, I guess, decision making power too. Yeah. So it’s really been interesting in that aspect

Martha Dow 17:09

Well, and I know we all do it, but when you say “just” students, and I think we create that idea, you know, students are the most important part of the university, and I think there’s potential for change making to remind us, all of us, that we’re in service. And, you know, some people see service, that descriptor as a negative, and somehow that lessens what they do. I see I’m in service to our communities, to our students. That’s why we’re here, and then kind of to build this collaborative project of the university with students. That’s incredibly exciting, but it also means we have to interrogate the power relations, right? We need to think more critically and carefully about how we structure our courses, how we think about access, right? We have sort of very narrow ways of thinking about some of these things, and we, like in any sector, there’s often we do things because it’s the way we’ve always done things, right? So I think just the spirit of change making by having it core to our identity, my real hope going to, you know, your question about, you know, what’s on the agenda kind of thing, having that at our core, I think, just that it’s allows us to imagine things, and not allow, maybe that’s not the right word. It promotes, it pushes us. It gives us permission to imagine things that look differently and again, that’s why the leadership to have a president and Ashoka has, you know, talked a bit about this, to have a president who really was so critical to this coming to UFV, to be thinking about it, to propelling it, to resourcing it, as Provost and now as President, to have it so central to how he understands his mandate and the university’s role, you know, is incredibly exciting.

Regan Smith 19:05

Yeah, it’s also, as you’re talking about, this is changing times. So universities need to kind of change as well, to adapt to the times that we’re in. This is one of the ways to adapt, because traditional universities very much like there’s a professor, and there’s the student with the professor having, I guess, a bit more power, or not sure if that’s the right word, but yeah, instead of having this like, oh, we are professors and we’re serving the students like, we’re trying to create this kind of new generation..

Martha Dow 19:40

Yeah, I mean, and it’s everything we do. I think that’s what’s exciting. Again, if you see it as a thing, then how does it infiltrate all the aspects of the university? But if you see it as the university, that’s why we’re here, then all of a sudden we get to have conversations about, how do we organize our cafeteria in terms of ideas around sustainability. What kind of food do we eat? How do we organize a campus, right? How do we think about, you know, climate change and environmental issues as we as we engage in design. How do we do our convocation, right? You know, how do we select our honorary doctorates? How do I like everything we do? Do we organize our courses?

Martha Dow 20:20

I remember, I mean, I tell this story a lot, but one of the honorary doctorates at one of my grads was Rosalie Abella, before she was part of the Supreme Court. And I remember, like it was this call to action, that I actually was thinking, I don’t even know if I have time to go for dinner with my family, right? Like I’ve got to go change the world, right? And I just remember that was, just that exhilaration of and responsibility, and mostly that she thought it was our job. And that, to me, goes to what I think you said about being in the room with decision makers, and then you being part of decision making, right? You two, as you’ve engaged like that’s incredibly freeing and inspirational to be at that table in a way that you’re really part of the table, right? So, yeah, I think, I think change making, again, gives us this organizing principle in terms of our identity, that that maybe helps.

Regan Smith 21:23

Mhmm, yeah, just hearing you talk about it makes me excited to go to university, even though I’m already at it. It’s more like a freeing aspect to it, because, you know, I don’t know it’s like in high school and everything, and that was like, okay, this is school or whatever. Have to do that university is optional. But when you talk about it like, it’s not just this, oh, I’m gonna sit in class for like, three hours and then do some homework after, and then I’m gonna get a degree, then I’ll get a job. It’s more like, it’s this place to be and, like, figure things out. Not this, like, transactional so much relationship. It’s more this, like, I’m gonna create things and I’m going to find things out.

Martha Dow 22:06

Yeah, and I’m gonna push back, and I mean, and I think that’s where, you know, we’re, we’re talking to our students, and, you know, creating assignments around collaboration, and hopefully not just, you know, the group work that everybody groans about, but you know, like collaborative opportunities in terms of assessment, engagement with course material, etc, and saying, you know, these are essential as you move, you know, into work, however work looks for you, and yet, at the same time, too often, we’re still hanging on to things that are about sole authorship, or first author, or even, you know, does some work qualify as authorship? Like those kinds of questions. And I’m always struck because here we’re talking to our students so often about these essentials, and then we’re having trouble, because we’re kind of thinking, well, how did we do it? What are the rules? How do they set up? And how do we adhere to them, even though we know we should be pushing back against them? So again, I think it, you know, it really comes down to, I mean, the only reason we’re here is students like otherwise, this is not a thing. So how do we do that in a more creative way that provides more flexibility and yet urgency in these times to be part of change.

Regan Smith 23:27

Yeah, and it just creates an atmosphere that you want to be in, instead of one that’s just checking off a box

Martha Dow 23:36

When it works, I agree, there’s nothing like it. I mean, I have been incredibly privileged to be in the classroom for my career. I mean, I love, you know, I love CHASI, I love all the work to do. I couldn’t be more excited for September. And I think valuing that reminds us that, you know, the classroom, the students, that’s the magic.

Regan Smith 24:04

Yeah, okay, so I guess we’ll take us to the last question. If you were to give a one minute TED Talk on the change that you want to see in regards to your work and experience, what would you say?

Martha Dow 24:14

I think for me, it’s about educating citizens, and I know that I’ve talked about that a lot already, but our fundamental role as a university is to educate citizens. Political, economic, social, citizens. And so then we have to embark on, what does that mean, what does that look like, right? And so I guess I would love to see a much more explicit conversation about what that looks like, what it means, how we design our campuses to promote it, and most essential is, how do we find spaces again to have difficult conversations, the polarization that happens, or the tip toeing around, or the conversations I have in faculty rooms where people are talking about their worries, about raising certain things. So to me, the most important thing universities can do is find that space to have the difficult conversations again, to do that in a way, we’re not debating people’s rights or their identity. That’s not it.

Martha Dow 25:19

But we do need to find space that people can be flawed, that they can ask questions, that they can learn, that they can be vulnerable every day, every time I teach, I learn. But we’ve got to figure that out. And I think you can see the attack that has gone on in the states and continues to go on and you’re watching universities paying ransom. They’re extorted, you know, and based on some of their efforts to engage in things like, you know, EDI, etc. So that’s our biggest, it’s at our peril that we haven’t done this. It’s why we’ve fueled in many criticisms. You know, left leaning universities, all the professors are this and that, I think it has to, you know, it’s so centrally located that we’ve lost the ability to have good conversations in so many ways. So yeah, and I’m very appreciative of colleagues that continue to navigate it. I try to navigate it. But as institutions, we have got to do better.

Regan Smith 26:25

Well, Martha, it was a pleasure having you on.

Martha Dow 26:27

Oh, it was my pleasure. I always enjoy speaking with you and the two of you have done such amazing work to propel this work. So thank you for that.